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Thread: Those hoping for a price crash...

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    Default Those hoping for a price crash...

    ...Your prayers may have been answered...

    Diesel owners start praying http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/owners...R2Z&ocid=ientp

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    Mike01606's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    ...Your prayers may have been answered...

    Diesel owners start praying http://www.msn.com/en-gb/cars/owners...R2Z&ocid=ientp
    Country's full of sheep.....

    My DD is a 320d. 60mpg, 30 RFL and cheap insurance.
    Why on earth would I replace it with a petrol?

    ....and before they ban the ICE completely they'll need to build about another 50 nuclear power stations




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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike01606 View Post
    Country's full of sheep.....

    My DD is a 320d. 60mpg, 30 RFL and cheap insurance.
    Why on earth would I replace it with a petrol?

    ....and before they ban the ICE completely they'll need to build about another 50 nuclear power stations
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Because the diesel particulates cause all sorts of heath problems and the devices designed to clean them up:- Swirl flaps, Particulate Filters, AdBlue, and EGR systems are being routinely by-passed in the used market.

    The RFL for diesels is set to increase massively as we go from CO2 only to a whole suite of emissions considered. You will no doubt replace it with a petrol PHEV hybrid 320e in time but be clear the government wants to drive this very quickly now and the industry will play along to increase sales again.

    They won't need another 50 powerstations they will first move everyone to PHEV and incentivise the use of off-peak
    Charging. Tesla superchargers are already switching to a costed model - used to be lifetime free for early adopters.

    My active hybrid 335i is now already old tech (2013) but it still spanks my old 535d on overall emissions and yet matches it's MPG.

    Brits buy whatever is tax efficient and economical - even a slight change in VED triggers mass switching.

    Watch the next budget. I sold my diesel in anticipation of this.
    Last edited by Modificato; 12-09-2017 at 05:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    Because the diesel particulates cause all sorts of heath problems and the devices designed to clean them up:- Swirl flaps, Particulate Filters, AdBlue, and EGR systems are being routinely by-passed in the used market.

    The RFL for diesels is set to increase massively as we go from CO2 only to a whole suite of emissions considered. You will no doubt replace it with a petrol PHEV hybrid 320e in time but he clear the government wants to drive this very quickly now and the industry will play along to increase sales again. They won't need another 50 powerstations they will first move everyone to PHEV and incentivise use of off-peak
    Charging.

    My active hybrid 335i is already old tech (2013) but it spanks my old 535d on emissions and matches it's MPG.

    Brits buy whatever is tax efficient and economical - even a slight change in VED triggers mass switching.
    Watch the next budget. I sold my diesel in anticipation.
    It's unlikely they will apply RFL changes retrospectively, so the current diesels will be around for a long time yet.....Fuel duty could be increased but then that'll hit transport and that's the problem...It's not just cars it trucks, buses, delivery vans along with congestion and there are very few viable options for those.

    But.....A band wagon's just gone past and I agree spreadsheet Phil will jump on it ;) ......

    Juice wise, off peak will be nowhere near enough for the 30-40 million EV's, especially when the wind doesn't blow and until storage becomes viable. We can guess what'll happen though; another cynical levy will be applied to household bills to fund it. The solar feed-in tariff was a massively abused dropped bollock and I hope they don't repeat that one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike01606 View Post
    It's unlikely they will apply RFL changes retrospectively, so the current diesels will be around for a long time yet.....Fuel duty could be increased but then that'll hit transport and that's the problem...It's not just cars it trucks, buses, delivery vans along with congestion and there are very few viable options for those.

    But.....A band wagon's just gone past and I agree spreadsheet Phil will jump on it ;) ......

    Juice wise, off peak will be nowhere near enough for the 30-40 million EV's, especially when the wind doesn't blow and until storage becomes viable. We can guess what'll happen though; another cynical levy will be applied to household bills to fund it. The solar feed-in tariff was a massively abused dropped bollock and I hope they don't repeat that one.
    They will change RFL in a series of steps to hit the soft target of the consumer market. They are already testing self driving mini-trains of lorries travelling in close formation and I cannot wait for that to happen to also ban the +2mph overtaking lorry idiot that causes so many tail backs. On demand services are already having an impact and having converted to Uber for many trips myself - especially business trips I can see that making even more of a dent. My airport trip is 25 in a black cab 20 in a minicab and 14 by Uber. When I land in wherever - Paris last to go to PGA I don't have to worry about having cash, knowing the lingo or whether to tip or not. I get in - arrive - leave. When this service is connected to self driving cars people will change the way they think about cars. Enthusiasts cars will I believe be pretty immune to much of this but a change is a coming and Diesel is the target.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    They will change RFL in a series of steps to hit the soft target of the consumer market. They are already testing self driving mini-trains of lorries travelling in close formation and I cannot wait for that to happen to also ban the +2mph overtaking lorry idiot that causes so many tail backs. On demand services are already having an impact and having converted to Uber for many trips myself - especially business trips I can see that making even more of a dent. My airport trip is 25 in a black cab 20 in a minicab and 14 by Uber. When I land in wherever - Paris last to go to PGA I don't have to worry about having cash, knowing the lingo or whether to tip or not. I get in - arrive - leave. When this service is connected to self driving cars people will change the way they think about cars. Enthusiasts cars will I believe be pretty immune to much of this but a change is a coming and Diesel is the target.
    The situation for city dwellers and visitors will certainly change, over time, the biggest polluters are not cars but buses and lorries, the challenge for city dwellers is access to charging points, IIRC the majority of cars in London (and other cities) park on the streets, you'll need a bloody long extension lead to get from the 10th floor flat to the ground, and just think about the trip hazards with cables going across thoroughfares

    It's not just power stations that's the biggest cost, its the network upgrades, even now the DNO's have to be consulted regarding the installation of small 4 kW solar PV panels, if the network can't take the increased load then yer ain't gonna get permission

    Batteries are more damaging to the planet than fossil fuels, the power losses are a staggering 60% between production and end use.

    The holy grail will be hydrogen ICE and/or fuel cells, but cheap it ain't
    I'm not here for a long time - I'm here for a good time !

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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffpfc View Post
    It's not just power stations that's the biggest cost, its the network upgrades, even now the DNO's have to be consulted regarding the installation of small 4 kW solar PV panels, if the network can't take the increased load then yer ain't gonna get permission
    +1 Geoff.....

    I used power stations as an example but you're right, they'll need far bigger 'pipes' to get all that juice into the batteries unless there is a paradigm shift.

    I think Tesla's home storage solution is a possible answer. They are recycling batteries from their cars into home storage units once the battery performance starts to fall.
    A personal battery that is charged via local renewables/low carbon generation with limited grid top-up could smooth demand.

    I'm all for electric/hybrid cars but it has to work.
    FWIW There's a high probability my next DD will be an i3 as we have free charging at work [emoji106]

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    Quote Originally Posted by geoffpfc View Post
    T

    Batteries are more damaging to the planet than fossil fuels, the power losses are a staggering 60% between production and end use.

    The holy grail will be hydrogen ICE and/or fuel cells, but cheap it ain't
    Really? So have you factored in all the same costs both financial and environmental - the full picture?

    Even when you put petrol/diesel in your tank the ICE is at best 40% efficient

    Yes we need to look at all aternatives and efficient ICE used to regen (gas turbines, rankine cycles etc) will have a part to play mid term

    It will take a long time to move all cars, vans, lorries, busses and trains off ICE but it is being moved more rapidly and the technology is accelerating

    The nexy discussion is will we actually need 30 million cars ? Don't forget juts 1% of the fuel you put in your car is actually used to move you!

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    We live in the sticks, my wife drives 25 miles to the hospital to work. Are the hospital really going to put hundreds of chargers into every parking space for staff?

    I don't doubt all this could happen, but as usual the metropolitan elite see a vision of the future and want to get there now without thinking how we're going to get there, and who's going to pay for all this in terms of power stations, the grid etc

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    Once liquid hydrogen pumps start to appear on garage forecourts then all the problems of transmiting the "extra" electricity to street charging points, along with all the infrastructure point issues/charging leads/no where to plug in etc will disappear as most will use Hydrogen powered vehicles. These will be as convenient as filling up with petrol and the battery vehicles will become the new "Satans" fuel machines with horrendous batteries/expense/disposal issues. The transport industry will drive this as its not really viable to have electric HGV vehicles. The current rush to battery vehicles is being driven by "Lefty Greeny's" who havnt a clue about the real environmental costs or logistics.

    Hydrogen can be made with surplus electricity and stored, so sunny windy days we can have "green" sources running at full pelt and actually use the surplus electricity, which at the moment goes to waste.

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