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Thread: Hypercar Saturation

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffekins View Post
    Nice article, really enjoy your website.

    I find myself bored by the almost weekly release of a new £1m + car that will either never see the light of day and moreover will rarely ever see the road.
    Not that it would ever happen, but I would love to see a minimum 1st year mileage requirement for these types of cars to make sure that they do get driven.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boxer View Post
    Not that it would ever happen, but I would love to see a minimum 1st year mileage requirement for these types of cars to make sure that they do get driven.
    Some perspective from the supply side.

    At our company we have never seen the same level of demand and it has mainly gone upmarket and wider in global terms.

    The latest trend is a slew of super high value roadsters all limited edition ‘collector’ cars and across the board of high end brands. The manufacturers have all identified massive upper market growth all due to globalisation of wealth and the redefinition of what ‘wealthy’ actually means. Traditional markets are at the same time declining due to social mores changing around especially around environmental issues and growing concerns over conspicuous displays of wealth in declining economies. Our own market research shows that the supercar in many markets now the new ‘sports car’ and indeed the regular high volume sports car is becoming a dying breed. SUV’s are the new family saloons and they are often the main halo vehicle in a multi car middle class household as the female partner drives the purchase choice.

    On the hypercar front m

    We have a number of prototypes in work all alternatively fuelled and there are lots of proposed hybrid supercar projects but few have made into serious work. Being in the industry we see many projects come and go and blow hot and cold during their gestation. Had a meeting yesterday with a power train partner who does many of the hypercar power trains - never been busier.

    PS looks
    Like Stretched luxury SUV’s are going to be a big thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    Some perspective from the supply side.

    At our company we have never seen the same level of demand and it has mainly gone upmarket and wider in global terms.

    The latest trend is a slew of super high value roadsters all limited edition ‘collector’ cars and across the board of high end brands. The manufacturers have all identified massive upper market growth all due to globalisation of wealth and the redefinition of what ‘wealthy’ actually means. Traditional markets are at the same time declining due to social mores changing around especially around environmental issues and growing concerns over conspicuous displays of wealth in declining economies. Our own market research shows that the supercar in many markets now the new ‘sports car’ and indeed the regular high volume sports car is becoming a dying breed. SUV’s are the new family saloons and they are often the main halo vehicle in a multi car middle class household as the female partner drives the purchase choice.

    On the hypercar front m

    We have a number of prototypes in work all alternatively fuelled and there are lots of proposed hybrid supercar projects but few have made into serious work. Being in the industry we see many projects come and go and blow hot and cold during their gestation. Had a meeting yesterday with a power train partner who does many of the hypercar power trains - never been busier.

    PS looks
    Like Stretched luxury SUV’s are going to be a big thing...
    So what is actually driving this market demand? Is it exclusivity; because you now can, investment, something else or a combination of these?

    (God help us with the stretched SUVs! Idiots that drive the normal ones generally need driving lessons, so will be even worse in something bigger! Unless off course this is to the market that they will only be driven by a chauffeur; until off course it filters down to the Quashqia (or however you spell it) masses!)

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    There was an interesting article in The Road Rat about this type of car. It's the usual reasons of the mega wealthy wanting something more exclusive than say a standard 812, about being seen to be able to have the ultimate.

    Also about manufacturers being able to spread costs - allegedly Ferrari have never made a profit on a regular V12, so say an 812 at £300k isn't covering its costs. However, an SP1 Monza, with the same engine and more or less the same chassis etc is at over £1m. So the whole project (812 plus exclusive spinoffs) becomes profitable.

    Win for the manufacturers as development costs covered, win for the customers as they get the exclusivity they crave. Big problems though if the music stops, as all the manufacturers fancy a bit of this.

    It was an interesting article, well worth a read

    Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffekins View Post
    I find myself bored by the almost weekly release of a new £1m + car that will either never see the light of day and moreover will rarely ever see the road.
    +1

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    Quote Originally Posted by A348W View Post
    So what is actually driving this market demand? Is it exclusivity; because you now can, investment, something else or a combination of these?

    (God help us with the stretched SUVs! Idiots that drive the normal ones generally need driving lessons, so will be even worse in something bigger! Unless off course this is to the market that they will only be driven by a chauffeur; until off course it filters down to the Quashqia (or however you spell it) masses!)
    In a word:-

    Exclusivity,


    Customers want limited supply and to be intimately involved in the actual experience as a rarified journey. Spec'ing, waiting, visiting the build, collecting and then being 'part-of' the brand through events, shared experiences and adventures. Investment and value is a driver for a small number of people chasing a dream but the bulk of this market segment are all about the experience. In our business we are intimately involved in the gestation of these products. Having now met many of the prospective customers of these market niches and having seen both hits and misses for the actual projects I have learned a few things:-

    1) We are now firmly in the era of modified / bespoke / personalised cars - No such thing as standard supercar now no one wants one.
    2) Things have to be 'special' and have a 'special story' in order to be desirable - The whole experience is the prize not just the physical outcome
    3) In the era of young kids on youtube having a steady stream of supercars those with more wealth want to stand well apart - the more exclusive the better
    4) There is a tension in the market dynamics - market growth ^ desire for exclusivity ^
    5) More and more projects are viable due to process and technology improvements in the automotive sector that fundamentally change the old economies of scale....but
    6) At the high end every brand (and even some resurrected ones) has multiple projects in the pipeline...however
    7) Continuity of funding is affecting some marginal projects due to them being mainly financed by prospective customers
    8) We are moving almost to a patronage model in this niche - as per the arts - if customers like a concept they will finance its birth
    9) Growing gap between tastes of the established sector journalists and the actual paying customer base - witness Chris Harris on the Aston SUV - the customers don't care what Chris thinks they are queuing up to buy them.

    The passing of a generation is being compounded by a seismic geographic shift in the market centre.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    In a word:-

    Exclusivity,


    Customers want limited supply and to be intimately involved in the actual experience as a rarified journey. Spec'ing, waiting, visiting the build, collecting and then being 'part-of' the brand through events, shared experiences and adventures. Investment and value is a driver for a small number of people chasing a dream but the bulk of this market segment are all about the experience. In our business we are intimately involved in the gestation of these products. Having now met many of the prospective customers of these market niches and having seen both hits and misses for the actual projects I have learned a few things:-

    1) We are now firmly in the era of modified / bespoke / personalised cars - No such thing as standard supercar now no one wants one.
    2) Things have to be 'special' and have a 'special story' in order to be desirable - The whole experience is the prize not just the physical outcome
    3) In the era of young kids on youtube having a steady stream of supercars those with more wealth want to stand well apart - the more exclusive the better
    4) There is a tension in the market dynamics - market growth ^ desire for exclusivity ^
    5) More and more projects are viable due to process and technology improvements in the automotive sector that fundamentally change the old economies of scale....but
    6) At the high end every brand (and even some resurrected ones) has multiple projects in the pipeline...however
    7) Continuity of funding is affecting some marginal projects due to them being mainly financed by prospective customers
    8) We are moving almost to a patronage model in this niche - as per the arts - if customers like a concept they will finance its birth
    9) Growing gap between tastes of the established sector journalists and the actual paying customer base - witness Chris Harris on the Aston SUV - the customers don't care what Chris thinks they are queuing up to buy them.

    The passing of a generation is being compounded by a seismic geographic shift in the market centre.
    Cheers for that Always interesting to get insight from within an industry. Whilst we only do a small element of them, very strong parallels to the yacht business on all the points that you raise; its a very personal experience and expression of an owner's style.

    With respect to style, here are two extremes of the market place (new yachts), and I suspect the same client base as you mention above. It is a very personal thing
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    Always fascinated by the luxury yacht business.

    Did a lot of work in the RNLI with amongst other things setting up the new in-house boat building facility and associated operating ethos (think the F1 class of sea going craft amazing performance, cutting edge esoteric materials and massive power). Next door was Sunseeker so lots of opportunity to see the high end stuff they do. One thing that struck me was the gap in interiors from the best-of-the-best in automotive (Bentley) and that that is considered best of the best in marine which seems to be quite a long way behind....

    Still as you rightly say lots of parallels and very similar market characteristics...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Modificato View Post
    Always fascinated by the luxury yacht business.

    Did a lot of work in the RNLI with amongst other things setting up the new in-house boat building facility and associated operating ethos (think the F1 class of sea going craft amazing performance, cutting edge esoteric materials and massive power). Next door was Sunseeker so lots of opportunity to see the high end stuff they do. One thing that struck me was the gap in interiors from the best-of-the-best in automotive (Bentley) and that that is considered best of the best in marine which seems to be quite a long way behind....

    Still as you rightly say lots of parallels and very similar market characteristics...
    Our paths may well have crossed if that was when they were setting up the old green marine facility in Lymington for the Shannon as I was doing a few jobs for them at the time. I was also trying to sell noise and vibration capability to sunseeker et al at the time.

    Some very general observations:
    - the likes of sunseeker/princess are mostly about mass production, similar to any car company where they deal directly with the end client and you pick your options from a set menu and await delivery to your chosen marina. (Although there is another zero or two on the price tag compared to a car).
    - Some of these companies have pushed into the bottom end of the superyacht market, where the customisation opens up, but within defined exterior styles and interior layouts. With interior styling really limited by what the client will pay for. Similar I guess to Ferraris Taylor Made programme. Interestingly its here that the client relationship changes, that they are not just dealing with the client, but their skipper/project manager/team, and the requirements grow in complexity. Some company's can deal with this and understand it, others don't.
    - next up is typically bigger yachts where they are sold with more options for customisation on interior layout and some exterior styling, but with a common hull form/propulsion line up (akin to engine/floor pan in a car). With the client team growing to include dedicated interior designers as wells as project management/ technical teams; probably similar to Ferraris custom cars (don't know what that programme is called)/Pininfarina Battist territory!
    - then we get into full customisation, where everything is as the owner wants it. Hull form, propulsion line up, interior layout, exterior styling, toy lockers etc etc. The interiors are typically all custom from the furniture, carpets, fabrics, cutlery, door handles, entertainment systems, lighting etc etc. Small example, but one yacht, the lights on the exteriors deck took 125 hrs each to make just the surrounds and there were 40-50 of just them!! This is off into the 100s million-billions territory. I don't see an equivalent in the car world at the moment, but as people search for exclusivity, as you say, I don't see why not...and at the end of the day the cost of a custom car would be pocket change in comparison to a yacht or plane.

    (Apologies to the OP for hijacking the thread.)

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    Thanks for your insights Mod, very interesting.

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